Curse

Dragannia · Oct 09, 2006, 11:04 AM // 11:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rera

Shock+Frenzy is only 10 actually. Say you start at 25e. You use Frenzy, you're at 20e, and Shock, which puts you at 15e. The exhaution puts your max energy at 25-10 = 15e.

The difference between a flashbot and a blackout is that blinding flash happens at range, whereas blackout is a touch skill. The degree to which each is telegraphed is vastly different, because there's usually no other reason for a Mesmer or Cripshot (the other main blackout user) to run into melee range of anyone. I'm not saying it's unusable - it's definitely a good skill with careful usage, but you can't rely on it.

I'll concede that an esurge mesmer is at least moderately effective against everyone, but I'm not sure that's saying much. My original argument is that it's non-optimal. Esurge builds are generally designed to destroy monks and casters, and they're extremely good at doing it. Turning the same guns on a warrior may or may not be effective depending on the situation, and definitely isn't going to work as well as someone that brought dedicated warrior hate.

A fair comparison I think is the cripshot ranger, the standard 'jack-of-all-trades'. A good cripshot is an impediment to everyone - she spreads conditions, snares warriors and kiting targets, interrupts casters, blacks-out warriors trying to spike and monks trying to heal spikes.

Typically, a spike will occur on a caster. Mesmers are either backline or mid-line, pretty close to where most of your casters are at. In any case, yes, I'll conceed that a Surge build is *non-optimal,* but a jack of all trades is pretty non-optimal in the first place. I'll agree that a Cripshot probably does more in terms of random damage/pressure, but the two professions have different styles of playing and do vastly different things.

ogami_ito · Oct 09, 2006, 03:22 PM // 15:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Icyguava

However, I'm quite disappointed with ALL suggestions here as either you have not unerstand my problem or you have not played with a Sin with Mes as secondary.

I have played a A/Me. The primary purpose of that is not using Me hexes but rather using Illusionary Weapons, or Mesmer defences, or both.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Icyguava

My opponent, with a Mes as secondary, easily slows down my W and hex me till death. All I could do is busy healing myself. Anyway, what is the use of a W if he can't get close enough to touch his opponent.

From this we can assume that your opponent is just shadowstepping in/out of SPELL range and using hexes on you? And is a primary sin? First of all, a primary SPELL/HEX casting sin is stupid. You are getting beat by a bad build. Second, we really can't help you because you have not told us what skills he is useing and what hexes.

Without knowing the specifics of his skills / what type of PvP...Sins have a decent Warrior shut-down hex and mesmers have several warrior shut-down hexes. If these hexes are too much of a problem, pick a /Me secondary and take shatter hex and/or hex breaker. Now you are immune to his main forms of attack. Maybe go as a sword W/Me, and bring "Charge!" (which is an elite boosting shout which benefits your whole team), hamstring (to stop him from kiting you) , and hexbreaker (stance).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Icyguava

Very surprise to see that everyone is discussing what skills to kill a Sin rather than how to kill THE Sin.

You were not clear. And everyone made a valid assumption that you were trying to kill sins in general. This is because a) as said before, generally you don't make a build or playstyle around killing any one class, let alone a very specific class combo. and b) you didn't describe the playstyle of the A/Me, so we didn't know, and c) you didn't say what type of PvP setting. Asking how to kill a specific character seems besides the point of PvP as PvP is a group game where it is almost never 1 v1.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Icyguava

Anyway, I've figured the only way to counter my opponent, I require to switch my secondary to Sin. Mainly because of the shadow step to get close him. Other secondary is meaningless, consider the low energy I have to cast other spells.

Really, if this sin is giving you so much of a problem, then any caster who kites is probably owneing you. Sins have only 1 good shadowstep skill and that is an elite enchantment...any enchant removal will send him back out before he finnishes his run. Crippling skills + running speed boost skills > shadowstep. The purpose of shadowstepping is NOT kitting...it is for surprise attacks. YOu going W/A will not help you much. W/Me, W/Mo, W/N will help you though.

Rera · Oct 09, 2006, 08:19 PM // 20:19

@Icyguava: If our responses weren't tailor-made for your problem, you have only yourself to blame. After all, you didn't tell us exactly what the problem was. When I hear A/Me, I think of an assassin using mostly assassin skills, not a Mesmer in assassin's skin. Just throwing out a, "I'M GETTING PWNED, HELP ME!" doesn't tell us anything.

@Dragannia: Frenzy+Shock costs 10 all the time. You should never be in a speed boost prior to activating Frenzy, because you need that speed boost to cancel Frenzy. If you need to speed boost and chase your target around, your spike isn't going to work anyway, because the entire enemy team already knows who your target is.

My point was that you probably shouldn't play a jack-of-all-trades because they are non-optimal, and that a mesmer is better served specializing in caster hate, warrior hate, etc. I bring up the Cripshot not because I think it's similar to a Mesmer (as we both agree that they are not all that similar), but because a Cripshot is a good example of a maximally effective 'jack-of-all-trades'.

Dragannia · Oct 10, 2006, 10:24 AM // 10:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rera

@Dragannia: Frenzy+Shock costs 10 all the time. You should never be in a speed boost prior to activating Frenzy, because you need that speed boost to cancel Frenzy. If you need to speed boost and chase your target around, your spike isn't going to work anyway, because the entire enemy team already knows who your target is.

Not really. Take Rush, for instance. You could easily be in it, and have it waiting for you to cancel Frenzy with. And Rush a is very popular skill, especially for Hammer Warriors.
You only need a slight speed boost to land that first Shock/KD and instead of a few extra seconds you might have to chase someone for. For example, calling a "Three, two, one, SPIKE" then finding out that your other Warrior-spiking pal hasn't reached the target at the same time as you and delivered a KD is frustrating.

Anyway, Mesmers, in my opinion, at least a Domination Mesmer for GvG, is never specialised for Melee/Caster hate. Take the generic build: Surge, Burn, Blackout, Drain Enchantment, Shatter Enchantment, Distortion, Diversion, Hard Res. We'll say the first two are 'caster hate.' For Blackout, by your reasoning because it's 'touch range,' it serves far better against Warriors because they'll probably be closer to you, but in reality it can be used as both. Shatter Enchantment is both spike and an enchantment removal, but generally it's more useful in a spike. A Mesmer, I would say, can't be restricted to 'caster hate' or 'warrior hate' because they need to be able to do a lot of things.

Rera · Oct 10, 2006, 11:42 PM // 23:42

When I play shock axe, this is my skill progression:

Frenzy -> Shock -> Evisc -> Exec -> Sprint

There is no way to have your cancel stance ready for you again after the spike, even using Rush. Rush costs 4a, so if I use it prior to spiking, I will not have gained enough adrenalin after using the axe combo to activate it.

If your warriors need to speed boost to reach the target in "3, 2, 1", the caller isn't doing his job properly.

Dragannia · Oct 11, 2006, 02:01 AM // 02:01

The stance lasts for around 15 seconds. During that 15 seconds, you would have easily gained enough adrenaline to use it again.

IllusiveMind · Oct 12, 2006, 03:29 AM // 03:29

Shield Bash + Balance Stance + Watch Yourself! = Puzzled Assasin.

Xaero Gouki Kriegor · Oct 12, 2006, 05:03 AM // 05:03

your a warrior, but i don't see anything that says you can't use your secondary mostly. . . .

W/Me

Signet Of Midnight {E} (GOOD GAME right here)
Empathy
Spirit Of Failure
Clumsieness
Deadly Riposte
Shield Stance
Disciplined Stance

rest may vary

basicly, you know what your fighting agaisnt, SHUT HIM DOWN!

i don't believe in 1v1 very much, for i think its kinda stupid and not really determining the skills of someone in this TYPE of game which really depends on 8v8, 4v4, 6v6, or 1vMany AI(PvE Solo), so i pull out this cheap arse build every time a war challenge's me into a fight, or i use one of the builds used agaisnt aatxe's in 1v1 department when challenged by melee character

jesh · Oct 12, 2006, 08:06 PM // 20:06

If you're a w/mo and snare hexes are eating you, why not use Holy Viel?
Other than that, sure, Balanced Stance works great vs assassins.. no crits = no energy in most cases, but I don't see how it will be that useful outside of a 1v1 fight.

TadaceAce · Oct 13, 2006, 02:28 AM // 02:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eldritch Icefist

zerker stance
sever artery
gash
silverwing/galrath
deadly reposite
reposite
glads defence
rez sig

seriously... hes already a wammo... now your gonna make him the joke of all pvp by making him bring riposte (or reposite as spelled by this guy), deadly riposte, and gladiators defense. Your going about this all wrong, your job is to not counter the assassin, your job is to kill faster than the assassin...

About 1v1... its gonna be all about Hero V Hero, I hope they let us choose an opponent if we really want so I can just rip to shreds all the wammos who think they are amazing.

Age · Oct 13, 2006, 09:51 PM // 21:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowfox1125

Shock + Frenzy is 10 energy; 5e each. And I have never met a good warrior with 30 energy before. The most you can get with a FULL Glads set is 28 energy, and I emphasized good earlier because no decent warrior uses a +5e weapon to attack.

You can if you use the + energy sword and if there is an axe version as well.I got 30 energy from a PvP Warrior with a full set of Glads.To the OP start thinking like Warrior and not a Tank.

jesh · Oct 14, 2006, 11:34 PM // 23:34

I think the reason that was stated is, to my knowledge, there are no +5 energy weapons that have a 15%^50 mod or anything similair. Your role is to do damage, not ping your energy.

lol @TadaceAce
That's kind of what I was saying, but you said it so much better. =P

Shadowfox1125 · Oct 17, 2006, 04:00 AM // 04:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

You can if you use the + energy sword and if there is an axe version as well.I got 30 energy from a PvP Warrior with a full set of Glads.To the OP start thinking like Warrior and not a Tank.

This thread is a little old, but what the heck. Age, you completely missed my point. No decent warrior uses a +5e in battle. You start thinking like a warrior, not a tank. A "tank" might require the +5energy, while the damage dealing warriors used in PvP absolutely would not. Shocking the Ghostly Hero in HoH is fine, but anywhere else, leave the +5e weapons to the casters.

not so newb · Oct 19, 2006, 10:30 PM // 22:30

Ya a good anti assasin build might require you using backbreaker or devestating hammer or earth shaker mixed with after shock.Also you might want to take armor of earth or watch yourself for some extra defence.

The Real Roy Keane · Oct 21, 2006, 03:57 PM // 15:57

Armour of Earth is a self snare, there's few worse skills you can pack on a Warrior.
All the advise about packing Ripostes is horrible, they're redundant skills in PvP. Knocking down or interrupting an Assasin in the middle of his attack chain is your best bet.

Thom Bangalter · Oct 21, 2006, 04:27 PM // 16:27

The Linebacker is ftw.

heroajax1 · Oct 21, 2006, 04:46 PM // 16:46

I think the key here is to simply interupt the 'sin chain of skills. Hammer FTW! Figure out what killed you by watching the skills beign used. It's entirely possible (highly likely) that 'sin set himself up as a tank killer. Not a whole lot you can do about that if you're going solo. Many peeps had good suggestions for counter skills. So, try them out, see what works.